40. High-Stakes Conversations: How to Use Your Voice Powerfully with Rita Kale
The gap between knowing what to say and actually saying it in high-stakes conversations isn't about lacking confidence or needing more preparation. Today's episode is for every woman who's ever found herself in a high-stake moment, sitting across from senior leaders, preparing for a tough conversation, or making a call that could shift her career, and wonders, “Is this my truth or my fear speaking?”
I’m joined this week by my client and Results-Oriented Chief Financial Officer, Rita Kale. Rita discovered through her endurance running that the same mental discipline required to complete marathons applies directly to navigating boardroom dynamics. After working across multiple continents and scaling numerous businesses, she's learned that success in crucial conversations comes down to recognizing which inner voice deserves your attention.
Tune in as Rita and I explore how the reality of navigating high-stakes conversations isn't about performance strategies or the perfect script. It's about emotional intelligence, discernment, and rewiring your inner voice so that when it matters most, you don't freeze. You lead.
If you’re ready to show up with confidence, presence, and authority, join me for my free masterclass, How to Be Heard In a Room Full of Male Leaders, happening on Thursday, July 24th 2025, at 12pm Eastern. Click here to register.
Interested in working with me? Book a free 1:1 consultation here!
What You’ll Learn from this Episode:
Why acknowledging multiple inner voices helps you consciously choose which one to amplify.
The critical difference between self-awareness and self-absorption in leadership moments.
What marathon training teaches about conquering the daily resistance to showing up.
How visualization and anticipation prevent getting hijacked by discomfort in meetings.
The reason the ability to be present is just as important as the actual work you do.
What makes a leader truly successful.
Listen to the Full Episode:
Featured on the Show:
If you haven’t already, please follow the podcast and leave a rating and review to let me know what you think. Find complete instructions here!
Rita Kale: LinkedIn
Full Episode Transcript:
Today's episode is for every woman who's ever found herself in a high-stake moment, sitting across from senior leaders, preparing for a tough conversation, or making a call that could shift her career and wonder, "Is this my truth or my fear speaking?" I'm joined by my client, Rita Kale, a seasoned leader and someone who has done the deep, transformational work of meeting herself differently when the pressure is high.
This conversation isn't about performance strategies or the perfect script. It's about emotional intelligence, discernment, and rewiring your inner voice so that when it matters most, you don't freeze. You lead.
Welcome to The Balanced Leader, hosted by Yann Dang, a Leadership and Life Coach with over 20 years of corporate experience. Drawing from her journey as a former global finance leader and second-generation immigrant, Yann understands the unique challenges women face in male-dominated workplaces.
Each episode offers insights on balancing masculine and feminine energies, mastering soft skills, and building emotional intelligence. Join us to transform frustration into empowerment and unlock your authentic leadership potential.
Yann Dang: Hey podcast listeners, welcome to today's show. We are talking about rewiring your inner voice, or shall I say voices? Because oftentimes we have multiple voices and how to use that voice in an empowering way in high-stake situations. I am joined here by a person that I've had the privilege of coaching and working with. Her name is Rita Kale and she is a Chief Financial Officer. She's also a board member. She is a result-oriented leader who helps scale and grow so many businesses. And I'm excited to have her here today to talk to you about her experiences in high-stake situations and how she uses that empowering inner voice herself. She's also an endurance runner, so we're going to dive into a little bit of that as well. So let's start this conversation off.
I wanted to invite Rita here to share her experience, and before we dive in, Rita, please, can you share with us what your background is, where you come from and let the listeners here know a little bit more about you before we dive into this very important topic.
Rita: Sure. Thanks a lot, Yann, for inviting me on this podcast. I'm really excited to be here. So I grew up in India and I moved to Australia for my post-grad and stayed there for a few years and then embarked on a journey with Roche Pharmaceuticals that took me to several different countries and several different roles. I lived and worked in Australia, in the US, India, Singapore, Switzerland, South Africa, back to the US now, and grew in my leadership journey, took on larger, more consequential positions, and continued to grow as a leader. So lots of fun, really exciting journey, and now I'm based in the US, in New York City, with my husband and been here for a few years and enjoying every minute of it.
Yann Dang: Yes, and Rita's also a multi-marathon completer, however you want to say it, but can you share a little bit about that too and what that's meant to you? Because I know it's been part of your journey.
Rita: Sure. It's actually been a really important part of my journey, much more important than I would have thought when I first started. So firstly, I started running late. I started running when I had turned 40, and it was a way of celebrating my 40th birthday. I had never run a single race, a single mile before that, and I just saw all these runners arrive in Central Park at the end of the New York marathon, which I actually did not even know that was going on that day. But I happened to be at the ending point and I saw them come back and it was exhilarating and I thought, okay, maybe that's what I should do for my 40th. That's when I got into it and I started training for it and I haven't looked back.
So I've done 10 marathons since then. I have run the World Six, the Abbott Six, which I'm really happy about. But I think the running journey has given me more professionally than I would ever have imagined. And I'd love to share a little bit more as we progress through this conversation, but yes, I'm not a sprinter, I'm not a fast runner, I'm an endurance runner.
Yann Dang: Well, and here's a curious question because we are going to dive into that inner voice, but are you somebody who runs like listening to things or do you just have your own voice or what is that for you?
Rita: Right. I started off running to music because I think when you're first starting out, it's very motivating to run to something fast and with a great rhythm and then you have all kinds of things that you listen to which are, which help you stay to your beats per minute. From then, I progressed to podcasts, and as I ran longer and longer, I was working, I used to get up earlier and earlier for my long runs. I realized that was a great way of catching up on the news of the day.
So I had a whole playlist of podcasts that I used to listen to catch up on the news. I've stuck with that. I've added to that for my long runs. I have lots of different things that I listen to. So I switch between music and podcasts when I need some extra motivation, but when I want to really think, and if I have a big meeting coming up or something that I need to prepare for or something that I know might be contentious, which I really need to be present in, I run without anything and I actually just prepare for it when I'm running. To me it's, it's meditative. It's a sort of really being present in the moment, being with myself, helps me think through things much better that way.
Yann Dang: That's great. Because I think this is an important point. I think sometimes, especially when women see other women or other leaders, they think that, oh, they just must have had the answer in their head. Like I think a lot of times people don't think about the strategy ahead of time. And oftentimes you hear people say, I was in the shower and I thought about this, or for me it used to be like, I was at yoga and I thought about like the answer to this, right? Like you spend your time not like sitting like getting the answer down, but almost having a conversation with yourself where there's space for that conversation to prepare yourself or to create like the, you know, right space to allow things to emerge.
At the same time, if you were really prepping for something contentious, that also gives you space. And you know, what we're talking about here today is like what voices to listen to. Because sometimes we have lots of different voices in our heads. And if you've been a longtime listener of this podcast, I often talk about like the survival brain and our limbic system and when we are triggered and when we're in survival mode, oftentimes that voice isn't our highest level thinking. It's not our most creative critical thinking, right?
And what we want to do is create space to get in touch with that prefrontal cortex where we're really expansive, where we're willing to say the thing that maybe be unpopular but is purposeful and is the best for the company or is true to being the leader that you are in that moment. Can you talk a bit about that process for yourself and, you know, if there has been something that has been contentious, what was your process, you know, that you took yourself through? And what has your journey been like? Because also, you're sharing you're from, you know, have the Indian background. I'm also from an Asian background, right? Where oftentimes women are in the kitchen or they're the ones doing the task or the caretaking and they're not the ones holding the big meetings or making the big decisions. So share with me more about and the audience about what that's like for you.
Rita: Sure. And before I do that, Yann, I just wanted to pick on something you said before, and you talked about how moments of creativity come when they least expect it when you're in the shower, when you're doing something different. So I have to say running does that to me as well. So, some of my best ideas recently have come when I've least expected them when I was going for a run doing something, but the key to that is you have to allow that space for yourself. Different things work for different people. This works for me. But the part that you're talking about in terms of preparing for something that you know will be contentious or where you know you want to show up at your best, or when you know that you're going into a situation where it has triggers and you've learned from past experience that you may respond in a way that you might regret it later on.
So, you know, things that you can see ahead of time, I think running really gives me the space to think through those things and prepare for how I need to show up in that moment. And that is very, very helpful. In terms of how I do that, I think you learn from experience that there are certain things that might trigger you. There are certain things that you might get, I wouldn't say intimidated by, but you might respond a little bit differently than if you were entirely comfortable, right?
So there are lots of situations at work where you want to be fully present and fully yourself, but something holds you back. With time, you realize and you recognize what those situations would be and what those triggers would be. So the part of prepping it is just acknowledging to yourself that yes, you know, this next big meeting that I'm going into is likely to be that particular situation. So then preparing for that, acknowledging that helps you go there and then summon whatever it is that you need to summon from within you. And you know, you talked about the inner voice, and quite often we talk about the inner voice being, like you said, the survival voice or a protective voice, something that is trying to make sure that you feel safe.
That voice can tell you not to speak up. That voice might say, hey, you know, there'll always be another time, you don't need to say anything now, or somebody else might say something, so you don't need to. It is always a voice that we link to the more negative aspects of showing up as a leader, something that might say, don't speak now, there'll be chances later on or whatever it is, right? But your inner voice, at least my inner voice, I've realized is not one thing. It is multi-dimensional, right? There is always this part that tells you, okay, you don't need to speak up now, there'll always be a chance later on, or just be safe, don't take this person on or don't take something on which might put you in a position which is not comfortable.
But there is this other voice that you can summon, that you have summoned in other instances where you've had a difficult situation, where you have spoken up, you have succeeded, and you've got good feedback. You are able to summon that voice as well. It's there, it's lurking. It may not be the one that jumps to the surface at the very beginning, but it can be summoned. So prepping for these meetings helps you remember that there is a voice at your disposal that you can summon, which is the other aspect of it.
Yann Dang: So yeah, what I'm hearing you say, it's like redirecting, right? Like there's that part of us that's just going to give us that like, let's not. Actually, let's like think about it as like even getting up early to run, right? There's always that part of our voice that's like, let's just snooze a little more. Let's just not, you know, like I have some clients of mine who are like, if I put the workout clothes out and I like, you know, visualize it, then I will more likely follow through it. But like there's always that voice that's like what's going to happen if you don't speak up, right? Or like what's going to happen if you choose to not go for the run.
But it's really that redirection of, you know, like this is kind of comes back to the bigger why, like why are you here and what do you really want? And of course there's that short-term safety or comfort, but then there's also the feeling of empowerment and the feeling of accomplishing something or feeling satisfied with achieving something. So I'm curious for you, like do you have that with like morning runs too? Like maybe not today or like how what is that? Have you just trained your voice so much of like you want to do that?
Rita: No, I have that all the time. But I'm recalling these signs, you know, when you go for the New York Marathon, the Boston Marathon, there's many, many, many road signs that people put up they're holding and they're cheering the spectators are holding these signs that are cheering the marathoners on and many of them are completely politically incorrect so I won't mention any of those. But some of them are really, really funny and there was there's one that's routinely held up that says pain is only temporary, bragging rights last forever. So I think that is actually such an important sign because that's what happens in difficult moments as well. You can always just back off and say, you know, I don't want to deal with this right now. There will be another time. I can do it another day. But that's not true. If you do that every time, there will be nothing to go back to, right? So you need to conquer that and you can conquer that and you have conquered that. Just, you know, remembering that is super important. The question you asked about whether getting up in the morning is hard or sometimes you just don't feel motivated enough to run, that's always true.
And running specifically, I think is there's just so much you can draw from that because that is a solo sport. You may be running with others, you may be running in a marathon. In fact, running in the marathon is easier because there's many, many people like you and they're all struggling, they're all hating it. So when you're doing it, you have plenty of company. But training for the marathon is often a very, very solo event. So you still have to do your 18 milers and your 20 milers. You may have a running group, but many people and especially I do those runs alone.
So you're getting up at four in the morning, you're getting up before the crack of dawn, you can't eat and drink the way you'd like the day, the night before, you can't hang out with your friends the night before. So it is a lot of sacrifices along the way. It is a lot of discipline along the way. And it is as much about the mind as it is about the body. So the training applies as much to the mind as it does to the body. And I think that is very true of professional life as well.
Yann Dang: Yeah, that mind-body connection, right? Like in your mind you could be like, I'm ready to speak up. I have all the data. I'm, you know, ready to show up in this, but then somehow your body shrinks, you become smaller, you look around the room, maybe there's a bunch of men, there's like intimidating, I don't know, like there is that and then it's like almost like you lose yourself when you're not in alignment.
Rita: The training of the body to me is all the skills and experience that you've acquired along the way. You've done the work, you have put in the effort, you are there for a reason. You deserve to be at the table. You've done all the work to get that seat at the table. You deserve to be there. The training of the mind is to recognize that and to applaud yourself for it, to actually say that you deserve to be here, you should say what you need to say.
But Yann, I wanted to point out one critical fact that at least to me it has been very, very important in this whole thing about the inner voice and how do you summon the good inner voice, all of this conversation with yourself. I think sometimes what happens is when you're in a high-stakes environment and you're having this conversation with yourself that okay, this voice is telling me to be quiet, this one is telling me to speak up or whatever, you get so self-absorbed in that entire conversation that you're not present anymore.
And I think that is a key learning and that is something that is very, very important is to recognize that all this is okay, but you need to acknowledge it and park it and really pay attention to what's going on because there are people who don't say anything at all. There are people who say too much, but then there are people who say the right things and relevant things and people who say things that matter. You want to be that person. And to be that person, you have to park everything else aside and really focus on what's going on. So this conversation with yourself can be very, very distracting. It needs to be acknowledged but then parked.
Yann Dang: Yeah. Because it's if you're potentially, and I'll do both examples. It's like, if you're going for a run, but you're constantly thinking about when the run is over or like what you're going to be doing or if you should end the run shorter, you know, make it shorter, you have like it's like you're not even present for that run and you're not even getting the value out of that run for whatever mental clarity, space or connection because you're just somewhere else having another conversation.
And likewise, I think this is why it's so important to visualize or to know yourself because when we know ourselves, we can be more disciplined. And if we are more disciplined, we can direct our brain more and be go like how I talk about is like go to school on yourself and like notice your inner chacha. Like, for instance, when I remember I had a big and this is probably Rita is a CFO, but more than that, she's a phenomenal business leader. But I remember, you know, when I was quite junior in my career and it was like the first time I was like there was a big M&A activity and we were going to buy a company and I was like the speaker, you know? And I just I had the realization, wow, I am going to be like one of two women in this room. Like there's not going to be many. And this room we went to I was in Chicago working at the time. We flew to New York City. We had everybody, you know, on the leadership team. We were in this like fancy investment bank building in New York City.
And I just knew ahead of time, I need to practice visualizing what this is going to feel like because if I get in that room unprepared, I'm going to have all this chacha about, oh my gosh, I'm the most junior person here. I'm the only woman. I'm doing the due diligence part on the finance pieces. People are going to be, you know, wondering how am I going to perform, right? I'm going to have my own chacha. So it was like, I did a lot of visualization ahead of time and of course, I had my notes and things like that, but it was very much what had helped me was preparing for it and knowing, hey, you're going to feel a little triggered. I remember actually even being in the room and I'm like, actually, I'm the only person of color. Oh, wait a minute. There were these banking analysts, they were like Indian and I was like, okay, so it's them and it's like me and then everybody else. And I just was like, okay, fine, it's just facts. I'm not going to get triggered by it. I'm not going to like take myself out of my present moment of what I came here to do and how I came here to speak.
And, you know, I remember even interrupting during the operational part and I remember afterwards, the product leader was like, wow, like you asked so many questions about the operations. And I'm like, yeah, like as a finance leader, we need to know how to scale. Like, there this is beyond just my finance section of understanding like, you know, what the AR and stuff looked like. I really wanted to understand how we were going to integrate. But I wouldn't have had that presence if I was like, oh my gosh, is people looking at me? Is it my turn to speak? Should I interrupt, right? So I'm just curious if you've had processes like that. But I think sometimes people, they don't spend the time thinking about this ahead of time. They don't spend the time visualizing. They don't extend the time thinking, wow, I'm going to be uncomfortable and I actually can do something about it right now and I don't have to wait for that uncomfortability to happen to me.
Rita: Yeah. No, absolutely. I just think that if we are able to just focus on the moment and the conversations that are being had in the room, there is a reason why we are there and we can just do so much more justice if we're able to park everything else on the side, exactly to the point you made. Thinking about all of this too much is at the cost of actually contributing effectively to what's going on.
Yann Dang: It's kind of an interesting because there's a part of like where you anticipate it so that when you're in it, right? Kind of like you anticipate, I'm going to wake up in the morning, I may not want to run, but I'm going to be like, okay, that's a voice and there's another voice, right? Like to not get surprised by it and when you anticipate it, then you don't overly fall into the trap of spinning out in it.
Rita: Right, exactly. So you know when you're going to bed that I will not feel like running in the morning. I know I will think to myself that, okay, if I don't run in the morning, I can always run at night, but I prepare for it by telling myself, when I get up in the morning, I will not feel like running, but I will not entertain that conversation anymore. I will put a stop to it and just step out the door.
Yann Dang: Yeah, it's almost like we have this like inner like toddler or immature self or person that's like, no, I really don't want to, right? And that's a part of us and sometimes maybe we are on vacation and we indulge that part because we're like, whatever, it's fine. But when we're wanting to get somewhere, when we want to be a certain person and achieve a certain thing, right? We say, listen, of course, you're not going to feel like it, but at the end of this, we're going to feel great about ourselves.
One of my coaches has recently said something about, we're never more capable than we are in this moment right now. And I think that like is so profound because oftentimes, right, in meetings, you're like, I'll wait for my boss to speak or I'll try next time or let's hold back. So there's some way that somehow we think in the future we're going to not feel this way or maybe we look to the past and say, well, I was a lot stronger back then or something like that. What are your thoughts about that?
Rita: Yeah. No, I think there's a million reasons not to do something and there's a million excuses that you can give yourself in the moment. I think it's a fine line between acknowledging that, you know, to say that yes, you always have the opportunity to not say anything now, to keep it till the next meeting and then the next meeting and then the next meeting, but you run out of those chances, right? So, you know, we were talking about the running and training for a marathon. The marathon is on a particular date. It will not be pushed out just because you haven't trained enough.
So, every morning you can get up and you can tell yourself that you don't feel like running. Maybe you can give into that a couple of times. But if you gave into that every time that you got up for a run, you just would never be prepared and you'd never be able to run the marathon. So the same analogy applies at some point you have to conquer it. So how you do that, you need to find out what works. Different things work for different people. We've been talking about running a lot. There's just so many other forms of motivation and self care for people. I'm sure that could also work.
Yann Dang: Yeah, giving yourself that space and taking care of yourself. I'm curious for you because you know, you've had a very long career and when junior people have come to you and have maybe have had this problem of like speaking up or being heard, what have you shared with them or how do you talk to them about that?
Rita: No differently than what we're talking about right now. And surprisingly, the people who've come and shared with me that they are reluctant to speak up, I've actually thought were wonderful and should speak up and really had a lot to say. So I have been quite amazed at the type of people who've come and asked me those questions. I can actually, I struggle to think of anyone where someone's come and said this and I thought, yeah, I would struggle too because you're really, I don't know what you'd say. It's always been people who've been very, very good at what they did, who were confident, they were experts in their domain. They had a lot to say. They were thoughtful. They should have spoken and the only thing that held them back was a self-doubt.
So to me, this is really, really important because how you see yourself is not the way others see you. And when people come and talk to me about that, I always think to myself, oh my god, that's how I think as well. I mean, when I was growing through the ranks, I had this self-doubt for myself as well and think about the missed opportunities that, you know, I did not say something when I should have and it would actually have helped. I actually think that if you err on the side of saying too much, that's better than erring on the side of not saying anything at all.
Yann Dang: Yeah, because then you at least learned from it, right? Like you get some learning on it because I think that just as you're talking about, right? There's pain of just not showing up or not putting, taking the risk. And you can say that pain will go away when one day I actually do it, or that pain can just continue and then you realize that you are not getting promoted and you realize you are not speaking up and you are not feeling really empowered or very visible. And part of it is that you've gone into these meetings and are more focused on yourself or the dynamic or the environment than actually saying the thing and allowing yourself to make a mistake, but then to learn from it and to grow from that point, right?
Because I think it's like, oh, even if you say a lot, right? Then you get there it's actually interesting. It's like the people who get make more mistakes, learn quicker because they're like getting the feedback quicker, right? They're not like waiting for it to be perfect.
Rita: Yeah. And you know, there's just so much that you learn about what makes a leader successful, the talk about presence, the talk about the ability of being able to read a room and the domain expertise, the ability to ask the right questions, the ability to really prop people up, you know, not to make one look stupid. You there's a lot of things that go into being a leader and to being an effective leader. And many of those things that we're talking about really depend on you being there, listening deeply to what's going on, really responding to the people around you, reading the room. So if you're engaged in the conversation with yourself for a very long time, it is at the cost of everything else that you're doing to show up as a good leader.
Yann Dang: Yeah. So it's kind of like if you zoom out and see yourself and if you're like somebody who's like overly thinking about themselves, overly indulging in that fear or in that like sense of safety or just being wanting to be super careful, then you miss out on that opportunity versus like really zooming out and seeing yourself as somebody who has important things to say, important things to contribute, but it's hard to do that if you're not present, right? If you're not actually connected, right?
So I think sometimes people make the mistake of like, okay, I said that thing and then I looked really stupid. But part of it is like, okay, well, I wasn't super present. I just kind of like pushed myself to do it, but without that calm authority of being really connected and deciding ahead of time, deciding I belong in this room, I'm here for a reason. I, you know, what I say matters and knowing that like it's not so much all the data that you have, but it's the wisdom of the room that you're in and that's connecting with the innate wisdom that you have and the real logic that you have, right? So I think like it's really breaking these things down because I think as you say, it's it's a lot more complicated at this more senior level. There are so many dynamics. We haven't even talked about interpersonal dynamics or corporate politics that have a sub layer to this, right? That if you are present to that and you have the ability to hold that too, could make you very well-rounded and being able to deliver a message, a story in a way that lands with people. So it is like, there are a lot of things to balance here.
Rita: There are a lot of things to balance and I was thinking back to your previous question about what advice I've given to people. There was one that I wanted to mention specifically, this is going back about 10 years and this very, very good finance leader, she came to me and she like, she came to my team and she excelled in the content, right? She was a fantastic modeler, she was a fantastic slide maker, everything from a content perspective, she was brilliant at, but she would avoid meetings where she had to present her stuff like the plague. She would not want to be there. The rest of the story is very self-evident. Somebody else took credit for the work, whoever told the story got credit for the work, right? So somebody else always happens to be the person taking credit for what she was doing. So long story short…
Yann Dang: And it also sounds like she was happy for that to happen. Maybe from a not wanting to be uncomfortable, but longer term, I'm sure her career got limited because of it.
Rita: She was happy in that moment where she was able to avoid this, but she was not happy with the fact that she was never really appreciated for all the work that she was doing. So she saw the problem, but she just did not know how to get past it. So that was one that we really worked through a lot. Being able to present yourself as a leader is as important as really doing a good job with the content that you do. Being able to present yourself, being able to tell that story, being able to field questions, confidently, assertively, that is as important if you want to progress as a leader. It is a muscle that needs to be exercised. It is something that comes with practice. It is something that we all have to work towards. And I don't think this particular one is as gender specific as that. I think it actually plagues everybody. It's a it's growing up as a leader, right? This is something that we all have to learn and work through, but it is something that you recognize needs work. It just doesn't fall from the sky.
Yann Dang: Yeah, and I agree with you. I mean, I think that, you know, even I've had male people on my team who like they literally think, they're like, oh, that presentation was so great. You're just great at presentations. I'm like, no, I practiced. I practiced. The CEO practices. We all practice ahead of time. You know, we see how we feel in our body seeing the words. We practice being able to deliver it. But I think that oftentimes people think they're either born with it or they're not born with it or there's something broken about them or this fear or discomfort means something more than I need to work this muscle, right? Like I need to practice it, I need to go to school on it. Other people practice it and almost like normalize that this is just part of growing up and being a leader, right?
And I do think like there's probably just a little bit of like the conditioning, right? If they haven't seen as much of mothers or women speak up, then it's a little bit harder to, you know, just like I was thinking about this too, right? It may be easier for a woman, you know, whether she has kids or not to see a child and know how to comfort them like automatically because they've seen a lot of that and they've seen them as women do that. Whereas when we sometimes think about a board room and like a man maybe hitting like a table with his fist and with anger, but also power like that it's just a more normal in our minds because we've seen more of that. So part of it is rewiring what it feels like to be normal and rewriting what leadership is for you.
Rita: Yeah, and I think beyond gender, there's also this respect for titles and the authority and there's a lot of it that comes from, you know, your upbringing, the way you saw people behave around you and all of this needs to be worked through. Just knowing it doesn't mean that you've worked through it. I think that is a continuous process that you have to get used to.
Yann Dang: Yeah, that's so great. And like for you, I guess with like authority, how did you work through that?
Rita: That to me, I think was a bigger challenge than gender. I just think it was some people struggle with some things more than others and for me, this was a larger problem to speak truth to power and as a CFO, I often have to do that and really have to think through how and I used to look at other people and think, oh, he's so great. He just tells the guy as is to his face and I had to go back and think about how am I going to position this and how do I do this without feeling, you know, making that person feel like I'm confronting him or her or whatever. So I had to put a lot more work into it, but it paid off. So now I'm better at it than I was then. But it's just a muscle that you have to exercise like any other. You have to figure out what it is that you struggle with and then work on it.
Yann Dang: Yeah, and I think this is just the opening for people to say that this is normal. Everybody is working on this and it actually doesn't, even in today's world, right, where I think a lot of the things in politics, we think things are a certain way, but I think whoever you are, there's going to be dynamics that are going to be challenging and there's going to be things that need to be learned or rewired or even biases that we have that we might not even know that we have, right?
And in an ever sort of global world, the more you're on to yourself, the more adaptable you can be and the more capability you'll have in the moments as things arise to face them and not just either do what you've always done or to hold back. Well, thank you so much for being on today's show. I didn't really think we were going to talk about that much running, but there's so many parallels and I think it's important that people really see this. This is something that I always underline to anybody that I work with and even throughout the podcast that these are all skill sets.
They're skill sets that we don't learn so much in getting your MBA or getting your schooling, but is so important, real life lessons that relate to our own emotional intelligence, our own connection to ourselves and how powerful it is when we are able to work on that muscle and to learn how to practice skills that we haven't done and to have guides and mentors like you and to, you know, work with coaches to uncover that. I think that is in of itself empowering because I think oftentimes people are like, that person doesn't have a coach, but like how many executives do we know that have coaches, right? That have people helping them along the way. So, any final words from you Rita about this whole like if there's people out here listening and they want to use their voice powerfully, anything that you want to share or say to them about that?
Rita: The only thing I would say is the learning for me was that your inner voice is not one thing and you can make it work for you. So you don't have to go with the default all the time. And that to me is a big learning and something that worked for me. So thank you for all your help and working through this as well.
Yann Dang: Yeah, great. Thank you so much. I think that, you know, as we think about this, it's really about having those inner voices, but discerning that voice, redirecting that voice and making louder that voice that is going to help empower you. And it's funny because I think a lot of times people think empowerment feels great, but in the moment, it doesn't feel great. It doesn't feel great to constantly wake up early, doing the run or to sometimes even feel that discomfort in your body.
But at the end of it, like if you look back and you're like, wow, I feel really empowered. I decided to speak up. I took that risk. That's where you're like, okay, the more I can redirect and own my voice in that way, that voice that I want to be louder, the more empowered I'm going to be. Well, for everybody listening, we want you to really think about that there's multiple voices, but you get to as the leader of yourself consciously choose which voice you want to be cultivating and building and practicing more and more in your life and which voices maybe you want to quiet down a bit and say it's okay, but we can do this.
Thank you very much again, Rita for being part of this. And Rita, people want to connect with you or reach out to you, can you share about, you know, how they could do that?
Rita: You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I am on LinkedIn as Rita Kale.
Yann Dang: All right. Okay, so that is Rita. Thank you again for joining us and for everybody out there, go practice that empowering inner voice and have a great rest of your day. I'll see you next week. Thanks so much.
Thank you for being a part of The Balanced Leader community. We hope you found today's episode inspiring and actionable. For more resources and to connect with Yann, visit us at aspire-coaching.co. Until next time, keep leading with confidence and purpose.
This conversation isn't about performance strategies or the perfect script. It's about emotional intelligence, discernment, and rewiring your inner voice so that when it matters most, you don't freeze. You lead.
Welcome to The Balanced Leader, hosted by Yann Dang, a Leadership and Life Coach with over 20 years of corporate experience. Drawing from her journey as a former global finance leader and second-generation immigrant, Yann understands the unique challenges women face in male-dominated workplaces.
Each episode offers insights on balancing masculine and feminine energies, mastering soft skills, and building emotional intelligence. Join us to transform frustration into empowerment and unlock your authentic leadership potential.
Yann Dang: Hey podcast listeners, welcome to today's show. We are talking about rewiring your inner voice, or shall I say voices? Because oftentimes we have multiple voices and how to use that voice in an empowering way in high-stake situations. I am joined here by a person that I've had the privilege of coaching and working with. Her name is Rita Kale and she is a Chief Financial Officer. She's also a board member. She is a result-oriented leader who helps scale and grow so many businesses. And I'm excited to have her here today to talk to you about her experiences in high-stake situations and how she uses that empowering inner voice herself. She's also an endurance runner, so we're going to dive into a little bit of that as well. So let's start this conversation off.
I wanted to invite Rita here to share her experience, and before we dive in, Rita, please, can you share with us what your background is, where you come from and let the listeners here know a little bit more about you before we dive into this very important topic.
Rita: Sure. Thanks a lot, Yann, for inviting me on this podcast. I'm really excited to be here. So I grew up in India and I moved to Australia for my post-grad and stayed there for a few years and then embarked on a journey with Roche Pharmaceuticals that took me to several different countries and several different roles. I lived and worked in Australia, in the US, India, Singapore, Switzerland, South Africa, back to the US now, and grew in my leadership journey, took on larger, more consequential positions, and continued to grow as a leader. So lots of fun, really exciting journey, and now I'm based in the US, in New York City, with my husband and been here for a few years and enjoying every minute of it.
Yann Dang: Yes, and Rita's also a multi-marathon completer, however you want to say it, but can you share a little bit about that too and what that's meant to you? Because I know it's been part of your journey.
Rita: Sure. It's actually been a really important part of my journey, much more important than I would have thought when I first started. So firstly, I started running late. I started running when I had turned 40, and it was a way of celebrating my 40th birthday. I had never run a single race, a single mile before that, and I just saw all these runners arrive in Central Park at the end of the New York marathon, which I actually did not even know that was going on that day. But I happened to be at the ending point and I saw them come back and it was exhilarating and I thought, okay, maybe that's what I should do for my 40th. That's when I got into it and I started training for it and I haven't looked back.
So I've done 10 marathons since then. I have run the World Six, the Abbott Six, which I'm really happy about. But I think the running journey has given me more professionally than I would ever have imagined. And I'd love to share a little bit more as we progress through this conversation, but yes, I'm not a sprinter, I'm not a fast runner, I'm an endurance runner.
Yann Dang: Well, and here's a curious question because we are going to dive into that inner voice, but are you somebody who runs like listening to things or do you just have your own voice or what is that for you?
Rita: Right. I started off running to music because I think when you're first starting out, it's very motivating to run to something fast and with a great rhythm and then you have all kinds of things that you listen to which are, which help you stay to your beats per minute. From then, I progressed to podcasts, and as I ran longer and longer, I was working, I used to get up earlier and earlier for my long runs. I realized that was a great way of catching up on the news of the day.
So I had a whole playlist of podcasts that I used to listen to catch up on the news. I've stuck with that. I've added to that for my long runs. I have lots of different things that I listen to. So I switch between music and podcasts when I need some extra motivation, but when I want to really think, and if I have a big meeting coming up or something that I need to prepare for or something that I know might be contentious, which I really need to be present in, I run without anything and I actually just prepare for it when I'm running. To me it's, it's meditative. It's a sort of really being present in the moment, being with myself, helps me think through things much better that way.
Yann Dang: That's great. Because I think this is an important point. I think sometimes, especially when women see other women or other leaders, they think that, oh, they just must have had the answer in their head. Like I think a lot of times people don't think about the strategy ahead of time. And oftentimes you hear people say, I was in the shower and I thought about this, or for me it used to be like, I was at yoga and I thought about like the answer to this, right? Like you spend your time not like sitting like getting the answer down, but almost having a conversation with yourself where there's space for that conversation to prepare yourself or to create like the, you know, right space to allow things to emerge.
At the same time, if you were really prepping for something contentious, that also gives you space. And you know, what we're talking about here today is like what voices to listen to. Because sometimes we have lots of different voices in our heads. And if you've been a longtime listener of this podcast, I often talk about like the survival brain and our limbic system and when we are triggered and when we're in survival mode, oftentimes that voice isn't our highest level thinking. It's not our most creative critical thinking, right?
And what we want to do is create space to get in touch with that prefrontal cortex where we're really expansive, where we're willing to say the thing that maybe be unpopular but is purposeful and is the best for the company or is true to being the leader that you are in that moment. Can you talk a bit about that process for yourself and, you know, if there has been something that has been contentious, what was your process, you know, that you took yourself through? And what has your journey been like? Because also, you're sharing you're from, you know, have the Indian background. I'm also from an Asian background, right? Where oftentimes women are in the kitchen or they're the ones doing the task or the caretaking and they're not the ones holding the big meetings or making the big decisions. So share with me more about and the audience about what that's like for you.
Rita: Sure. And before I do that, Yann, I just wanted to pick on something you said before, and you talked about how moments of creativity come when they least expect it when you're in the shower, when you're doing something different. So I have to say running does that to me as well. So, some of my best ideas recently have come when I've least expected them when I was going for a run doing something, but the key to that is you have to allow that space for yourself. Different things work for different people. This works for me. But the part that you're talking about in terms of preparing for something that you know will be contentious or where you know you want to show up at your best, or when you know that you're going into a situation where it has triggers and you've learned from past experience that you may respond in a way that you might regret it later on.
So, you know, things that you can see ahead of time, I think running really gives me the space to think through those things and prepare for how I need to show up in that moment. And that is very, very helpful. In terms of how I do that, I think you learn from experience that there are certain things that might trigger you. There are certain things that you might get, I wouldn't say intimidated by, but you might respond a little bit differently than if you were entirely comfortable, right?
So there are lots of situations at work where you want to be fully present and fully yourself, but something holds you back. With time, you realize and you recognize what those situations would be and what those triggers would be. So the part of prepping it is just acknowledging to yourself that yes, you know, this next big meeting that I'm going into is likely to be that particular situation. So then preparing for that, acknowledging that helps you go there and then summon whatever it is that you need to summon from within you. And you know, you talked about the inner voice, and quite often we talk about the inner voice being, like you said, the survival voice or a protective voice, something that is trying to make sure that you feel safe.
That voice can tell you not to speak up. That voice might say, hey, you know, there'll always be another time, you don't need to say anything now, or somebody else might say something, so you don't need to. It is always a voice that we link to the more negative aspects of showing up as a leader, something that might say, don't speak now, there'll be chances later on or whatever it is, right? But your inner voice, at least my inner voice, I've realized is not one thing. It is multi-dimensional, right? There is always this part that tells you, okay, you don't need to speak up now, there'll always be a chance later on, or just be safe, don't take this person on or don't take something on which might put you in a position which is not comfortable.
But there is this other voice that you can summon, that you have summoned in other instances where you've had a difficult situation, where you have spoken up, you have succeeded, and you've got good feedback. You are able to summon that voice as well. It's there, it's lurking. It may not be the one that jumps to the surface at the very beginning, but it can be summoned. So prepping for these meetings helps you remember that there is a voice at your disposal that you can summon, which is the other aspect of it.
Yann Dang: So yeah, what I'm hearing you say, it's like redirecting, right? Like there's that part of us that's just going to give us that like, let's not. Actually, let's like think about it as like even getting up early to run, right? There's always that part of our voice that's like, let's just snooze a little more. Let's just not, you know, like I have some clients of mine who are like, if I put the workout clothes out and I like, you know, visualize it, then I will more likely follow through it. But like there's always that voice that's like what's going to happen if you don't speak up, right? Or like what's going to happen if you choose to not go for the run.
But it's really that redirection of, you know, like this is kind of comes back to the bigger why, like why are you here and what do you really want? And of course there's that short-term safety or comfort, but then there's also the feeling of empowerment and the feeling of accomplishing something or feeling satisfied with achieving something. So I'm curious for you, like do you have that with like morning runs too? Like maybe not today or like how what is that? Have you just trained your voice so much of like you want to do that?
Rita: No, I have that all the time. But I'm recalling these signs, you know, when you go for the New York Marathon, the Boston Marathon, there's many, many, many road signs that people put up they're holding and they're cheering the spectators are holding these signs that are cheering the marathoners on and many of them are completely politically incorrect so I won't mention any of those. But some of them are really, really funny and there was there's one that's routinely held up that says pain is only temporary, bragging rights last forever. So I think that is actually such an important sign because that's what happens in difficult moments as well. You can always just back off and say, you know, I don't want to deal with this right now. There will be another time. I can do it another day. But that's not true. If you do that every time, there will be nothing to go back to, right? So you need to conquer that and you can conquer that and you have conquered that. Just, you know, remembering that is super important. The question you asked about whether getting up in the morning is hard or sometimes you just don't feel motivated enough to run, that's always true.
And running specifically, I think is there's just so much you can draw from that because that is a solo sport. You may be running with others, you may be running in a marathon. In fact, running in the marathon is easier because there's many, many people like you and they're all struggling, they're all hating it. So when you're doing it, you have plenty of company. But training for the marathon is often a very, very solo event. So you still have to do your 18 milers and your 20 milers. You may have a running group, but many people and especially I do those runs alone.
So you're getting up at four in the morning, you're getting up before the crack of dawn, you can't eat and drink the way you'd like the day, the night before, you can't hang out with your friends the night before. So it is a lot of sacrifices along the way. It is a lot of discipline along the way. And it is as much about the mind as it is about the body. So the training applies as much to the mind as it does to the body. And I think that is very true of professional life as well.
Yann Dang: Yeah, that mind-body connection, right? Like in your mind you could be like, I'm ready to speak up. I have all the data. I'm, you know, ready to show up in this, but then somehow your body shrinks, you become smaller, you look around the room, maybe there's a bunch of men, there's like intimidating, I don't know, like there is that and then it's like almost like you lose yourself when you're not in alignment.
Rita: The training of the body to me is all the skills and experience that you've acquired along the way. You've done the work, you have put in the effort, you are there for a reason. You deserve to be at the table. You've done all the work to get that seat at the table. You deserve to be there. The training of the mind is to recognize that and to applaud yourself for it, to actually say that you deserve to be here, you should say what you need to say.
But Yann, I wanted to point out one critical fact that at least to me it has been very, very important in this whole thing about the inner voice and how do you summon the good inner voice, all of this conversation with yourself. I think sometimes what happens is when you're in a high-stakes environment and you're having this conversation with yourself that okay, this voice is telling me to be quiet, this one is telling me to speak up or whatever, you get so self-absorbed in that entire conversation that you're not present anymore.
And I think that is a key learning and that is something that is very, very important is to recognize that all this is okay, but you need to acknowledge it and park it and really pay attention to what's going on because there are people who don't say anything at all. There are people who say too much, but then there are people who say the right things and relevant things and people who say things that matter. You want to be that person. And to be that person, you have to park everything else aside and really focus on what's going on. So this conversation with yourself can be very, very distracting. It needs to be acknowledged but then parked.
Yann Dang: Yeah. Because it's if you're potentially, and I'll do both examples. It's like, if you're going for a run, but you're constantly thinking about when the run is over or like what you're going to be doing or if you should end the run shorter, you know, make it shorter, you have like it's like you're not even present for that run and you're not even getting the value out of that run for whatever mental clarity, space or connection because you're just somewhere else having another conversation.
And likewise, I think this is why it's so important to visualize or to know yourself because when we know ourselves, we can be more disciplined. And if we are more disciplined, we can direct our brain more and be go like how I talk about is like go to school on yourself and like notice your inner chacha. Like, for instance, when I remember I had a big and this is probably Rita is a CFO, but more than that, she's a phenomenal business leader. But I remember, you know, when I was quite junior in my career and it was like the first time I was like there was a big M&A activity and we were going to buy a company and I was like the speaker, you know? And I just I had the realization, wow, I am going to be like one of two women in this room. Like there's not going to be many. And this room we went to I was in Chicago working at the time. We flew to New York City. We had everybody, you know, on the leadership team. We were in this like fancy investment bank building in New York City.
And I just knew ahead of time, I need to practice visualizing what this is going to feel like because if I get in that room unprepared, I'm going to have all this chacha about, oh my gosh, I'm the most junior person here. I'm the only woman. I'm doing the due diligence part on the finance pieces. People are going to be, you know, wondering how am I going to perform, right? I'm going to have my own chacha. So it was like, I did a lot of visualization ahead of time and of course, I had my notes and things like that, but it was very much what had helped me was preparing for it and knowing, hey, you're going to feel a little triggered. I remember actually even being in the room and I'm like, actually, I'm the only person of color. Oh, wait a minute. There were these banking analysts, they were like Indian and I was like, okay, so it's them and it's like me and then everybody else. And I just was like, okay, fine, it's just facts. I'm not going to get triggered by it. I'm not going to like take myself out of my present moment of what I came here to do and how I came here to speak.
And, you know, I remember even interrupting during the operational part and I remember afterwards, the product leader was like, wow, like you asked so many questions about the operations. And I'm like, yeah, like as a finance leader, we need to know how to scale. Like, there this is beyond just my finance section of understanding like, you know, what the AR and stuff looked like. I really wanted to understand how we were going to integrate. But I wouldn't have had that presence if I was like, oh my gosh, is people looking at me? Is it my turn to speak? Should I interrupt, right? So I'm just curious if you've had processes like that. But I think sometimes people, they don't spend the time thinking about this ahead of time. They don't spend the time visualizing. They don't extend the time thinking, wow, I'm going to be uncomfortable and I actually can do something about it right now and I don't have to wait for that uncomfortability to happen to me.
Rita: Yeah. No, absolutely. I just think that if we are able to just focus on the moment and the conversations that are being had in the room, there is a reason why we are there and we can just do so much more justice if we're able to park everything else on the side, exactly to the point you made. Thinking about all of this too much is at the cost of actually contributing effectively to what's going on.
Yann Dang: It's kind of an interesting because there's a part of like where you anticipate it so that when you're in it, right? Kind of like you anticipate, I'm going to wake up in the morning, I may not want to run, but I'm going to be like, okay, that's a voice and there's another voice, right? Like to not get surprised by it and when you anticipate it, then you don't overly fall into the trap of spinning out in it.
Rita: Right, exactly. So you know when you're going to bed that I will not feel like running in the morning. I know I will think to myself that, okay, if I don't run in the morning, I can always run at night, but I prepare for it by telling myself, when I get up in the morning, I will not feel like running, but I will not entertain that conversation anymore. I will put a stop to it and just step out the door.
Yann Dang: Yeah, it's almost like we have this like inner like toddler or immature self or person that's like, no, I really don't want to, right? And that's a part of us and sometimes maybe we are on vacation and we indulge that part because we're like, whatever, it's fine. But when we're wanting to get somewhere, when we want to be a certain person and achieve a certain thing, right? We say, listen, of course, you're not going to feel like it, but at the end of this, we're going to feel great about ourselves.
One of my coaches has recently said something about, we're never more capable than we are in this moment right now. And I think that like is so profound because oftentimes, right, in meetings, you're like, I'll wait for my boss to speak or I'll try next time or let's hold back. So there's some way that somehow we think in the future we're going to not feel this way or maybe we look to the past and say, well, I was a lot stronger back then or something like that. What are your thoughts about that?
Rita: Yeah. No, I think there's a million reasons not to do something and there's a million excuses that you can give yourself in the moment. I think it's a fine line between acknowledging that, you know, to say that yes, you always have the opportunity to not say anything now, to keep it till the next meeting and then the next meeting and then the next meeting, but you run out of those chances, right? So, you know, we were talking about the running and training for a marathon. The marathon is on a particular date. It will not be pushed out just because you haven't trained enough.
So, every morning you can get up and you can tell yourself that you don't feel like running. Maybe you can give into that a couple of times. But if you gave into that every time that you got up for a run, you just would never be prepared and you'd never be able to run the marathon. So the same analogy applies at some point you have to conquer it. So how you do that, you need to find out what works. Different things work for different people. We've been talking about running a lot. There's just so many other forms of motivation and self care for people. I'm sure that could also work.
Yann Dang: Yeah, giving yourself that space and taking care of yourself. I'm curious for you because you know, you've had a very long career and when junior people have come to you and have maybe have had this problem of like speaking up or being heard, what have you shared with them or how do you talk to them about that?
Rita: No differently than what we're talking about right now. And surprisingly, the people who've come and shared with me that they are reluctant to speak up, I've actually thought were wonderful and should speak up and really had a lot to say. So I have been quite amazed at the type of people who've come and asked me those questions. I can actually, I struggle to think of anyone where someone's come and said this and I thought, yeah, I would struggle too because you're really, I don't know what you'd say. It's always been people who've been very, very good at what they did, who were confident, they were experts in their domain. They had a lot to say. They were thoughtful. They should have spoken and the only thing that held them back was a self-doubt.
So to me, this is really, really important because how you see yourself is not the way others see you. And when people come and talk to me about that, I always think to myself, oh my god, that's how I think as well. I mean, when I was growing through the ranks, I had this self-doubt for myself as well and think about the missed opportunities that, you know, I did not say something when I should have and it would actually have helped. I actually think that if you err on the side of saying too much, that's better than erring on the side of not saying anything at all.
Yann Dang: Yeah, because then you at least learned from it, right? Like you get some learning on it because I think that just as you're talking about, right? There's pain of just not showing up or not putting, taking the risk. And you can say that pain will go away when one day I actually do it, or that pain can just continue and then you realize that you are not getting promoted and you realize you are not speaking up and you are not feeling really empowered or very visible. And part of it is that you've gone into these meetings and are more focused on yourself or the dynamic or the environment than actually saying the thing and allowing yourself to make a mistake, but then to learn from it and to grow from that point, right?
Because I think it's like, oh, even if you say a lot, right? Then you get there it's actually interesting. It's like the people who get make more mistakes, learn quicker because they're like getting the feedback quicker, right? They're not like waiting for it to be perfect.
Rita: Yeah. And you know, there's just so much that you learn about what makes a leader successful, the talk about presence, the talk about the ability of being able to read a room and the domain expertise, the ability to ask the right questions, the ability to really prop people up, you know, not to make one look stupid. You there's a lot of things that go into being a leader and to being an effective leader. And many of those things that we're talking about really depend on you being there, listening deeply to what's going on, really responding to the people around you, reading the room. So if you're engaged in the conversation with yourself for a very long time, it is at the cost of everything else that you're doing to show up as a good leader.
Yann Dang: Yeah. So it's kind of like if you zoom out and see yourself and if you're like somebody who's like overly thinking about themselves, overly indulging in that fear or in that like sense of safety or just being wanting to be super careful, then you miss out on that opportunity versus like really zooming out and seeing yourself as somebody who has important things to say, important things to contribute, but it's hard to do that if you're not present, right? If you're not actually connected, right?
So I think sometimes people make the mistake of like, okay, I said that thing and then I looked really stupid. But part of it is like, okay, well, I wasn't super present. I just kind of like pushed myself to do it, but without that calm authority of being really connected and deciding ahead of time, deciding I belong in this room, I'm here for a reason. I, you know, what I say matters and knowing that like it's not so much all the data that you have, but it's the wisdom of the room that you're in and that's connecting with the innate wisdom that you have and the real logic that you have, right? So I think like it's really breaking these things down because I think as you say, it's it's a lot more complicated at this more senior level. There are so many dynamics. We haven't even talked about interpersonal dynamics or corporate politics that have a sub layer to this, right? That if you are present to that and you have the ability to hold that too, could make you very well-rounded and being able to deliver a message, a story in a way that lands with people. So it is like, there are a lot of things to balance here.
Rita: There are a lot of things to balance and I was thinking back to your previous question about what advice I've given to people. There was one that I wanted to mention specifically, this is going back about 10 years and this very, very good finance leader, she came to me and she like, she came to my team and she excelled in the content, right? She was a fantastic modeler, she was a fantastic slide maker, everything from a content perspective, she was brilliant at, but she would avoid meetings where she had to present her stuff like the plague. She would not want to be there. The rest of the story is very self-evident. Somebody else took credit for the work, whoever told the story got credit for the work, right? So somebody else always happens to be the person taking credit for what she was doing. So long story short…
Yann Dang: And it also sounds like she was happy for that to happen. Maybe from a not wanting to be uncomfortable, but longer term, I'm sure her career got limited because of it.
Rita: She was happy in that moment where she was able to avoid this, but she was not happy with the fact that she was never really appreciated for all the work that she was doing. So she saw the problem, but she just did not know how to get past it. So that was one that we really worked through a lot. Being able to present yourself as a leader is as important as really doing a good job with the content that you do. Being able to present yourself, being able to tell that story, being able to field questions, confidently, assertively, that is as important if you want to progress as a leader. It is a muscle that needs to be exercised. It is something that comes with practice. It is something that we all have to work towards. And I don't think this particular one is as gender specific as that. I think it actually plagues everybody. It's a it's growing up as a leader, right? This is something that we all have to learn and work through, but it is something that you recognize needs work. It just doesn't fall from the sky.
Yann Dang: Yeah, and I agree with you. I mean, I think that, you know, even I've had male people on my team who like they literally think, they're like, oh, that presentation was so great. You're just great at presentations. I'm like, no, I practiced. I practiced. The CEO practices. We all practice ahead of time. You know, we see how we feel in our body seeing the words. We practice being able to deliver it. But I think that oftentimes people think they're either born with it or they're not born with it or there's something broken about them or this fear or discomfort means something more than I need to work this muscle, right? Like I need to practice it, I need to go to school on it. Other people practice it and almost like normalize that this is just part of growing up and being a leader, right?
And I do think like there's probably just a little bit of like the conditioning, right? If they haven't seen as much of mothers or women speak up, then it's a little bit harder to, you know, just like I was thinking about this too, right? It may be easier for a woman, you know, whether she has kids or not to see a child and know how to comfort them like automatically because they've seen a lot of that and they've seen them as women do that. Whereas when we sometimes think about a board room and like a man maybe hitting like a table with his fist and with anger, but also power like that it's just a more normal in our minds because we've seen more of that. So part of it is rewiring what it feels like to be normal and rewriting what leadership is for you.
Rita: Yeah, and I think beyond gender, there's also this respect for titles and the authority and there's a lot of it that comes from, you know, your upbringing, the way you saw people behave around you and all of this needs to be worked through. Just knowing it doesn't mean that you've worked through it. I think that is a continuous process that you have to get used to.
Yann Dang: Yeah, that's so great. And like for you, I guess with like authority, how did you work through that?
Rita: That to me, I think was a bigger challenge than gender. I just think it was some people struggle with some things more than others and for me, this was a larger problem to speak truth to power and as a CFO, I often have to do that and really have to think through how and I used to look at other people and think, oh, he's so great. He just tells the guy as is to his face and I had to go back and think about how am I going to position this and how do I do this without feeling, you know, making that person feel like I'm confronting him or her or whatever. So I had to put a lot more work into it, but it paid off. So now I'm better at it than I was then. But it's just a muscle that you have to exercise like any other. You have to figure out what it is that you struggle with and then work on it.
Yann Dang: Yeah, and I think this is just the opening for people to say that this is normal. Everybody is working on this and it actually doesn't, even in today's world, right, where I think a lot of the things in politics, we think things are a certain way, but I think whoever you are, there's going to be dynamics that are going to be challenging and there's going to be things that need to be learned or rewired or even biases that we have that we might not even know that we have, right?
And in an ever sort of global world, the more you're on to yourself, the more adaptable you can be and the more capability you'll have in the moments as things arise to face them and not just either do what you've always done or to hold back. Well, thank you so much for being on today's show. I didn't really think we were going to talk about that much running, but there's so many parallels and I think it's important that people really see this. This is something that I always underline to anybody that I work with and even throughout the podcast that these are all skill sets.
They're skill sets that we don't learn so much in getting your MBA or getting your schooling, but is so important, real life lessons that relate to our own emotional intelligence, our own connection to ourselves and how powerful it is when we are able to work on that muscle and to learn how to practice skills that we haven't done and to have guides and mentors like you and to, you know, work with coaches to uncover that. I think that is in of itself empowering because I think oftentimes people are like, that person doesn't have a coach, but like how many executives do we know that have coaches, right? That have people helping them along the way. So, any final words from you Rita about this whole like if there's people out here listening and they want to use their voice powerfully, anything that you want to share or say to them about that?
Rita: The only thing I would say is the learning for me was that your inner voice is not one thing and you can make it work for you. So you don't have to go with the default all the time. And that to me is a big learning and something that worked for me. So thank you for all your help and working through this as well.
Yann Dang: Yeah, great. Thank you so much. I think that, you know, as we think about this, it's really about having those inner voices, but discerning that voice, redirecting that voice and making louder that voice that is going to help empower you. And it's funny because I think a lot of times people think empowerment feels great, but in the moment, it doesn't feel great. It doesn't feel great to constantly wake up early, doing the run or to sometimes even feel that discomfort in your body.
But at the end of it, like if you look back and you're like, wow, I feel really empowered. I decided to speak up. I took that risk. That's where you're like, okay, the more I can redirect and own my voice in that way, that voice that I want to be louder, the more empowered I'm going to be. Well, for everybody listening, we want you to really think about that there's multiple voices, but you get to as the leader of yourself consciously choose which voice you want to be cultivating and building and practicing more and more in your life and which voices maybe you want to quiet down a bit and say it's okay, but we can do this.
Thank you very much again, Rita for being part of this. And Rita, people want to connect with you or reach out to you, can you share about, you know, how they could do that?
Rita: You can connect with me on LinkedIn. I am on LinkedIn as Rita Kale.
Yann Dang: All right. Okay, so that is Rita. Thank you again for joining us and for everybody out there, go practice that empowering inner voice and have a great rest of your day. I'll see you next week. Thanks so much.
Thank you for being a part of The Balanced Leader community. We hope you found today's episode inspiring and actionable. For more resources and to connect with Yann, visit us at aspire-coaching.co. Until next time, keep leading with confidence and purpose.
Enjoy the Show?
Don’t miss an episode, follow the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube Music, RSS, or wherever you listen to podcasts!
